Emission cuts: showing the world it can be done
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Last week the Business Council of Australia (BCA) released a report titled Modelling Success. Although this report was generally well received, and well received by the Government, it was regrettably seen in some quarters as big business yet again being negative and failing to assist Australia to address the challenge of climate change.
We don't see ourselves as qualified to have an independent view of the science of climate change one way or another. It is rightly the prerogative of government to determine this based on the weight of scientific evidence. It is their view that the weight of scientific evidence says that global warming is a problem, a global problem which Australia must take its part in addressing.
What are we trying to do?
It is accepted that Australia alone cannot solve the problem of global climate change. We account for just 1.6 per cent of global carbon emissions. What we can do, however, is take a position which will influence the global debate. We can show the world that it can be done without unduly harming our economy. This, to my mind, is the real prize, for Australia to be a role model for others to follow.
In July the Government released its Green Paper which provided the first real detail of how Australia would do this. The Government intends to introduce an emissions trading scheme which it has called the Carbon Pollution Reduction Scheme (CPRS). The CPRS is designed to incorporate the negative societal costs of pollution into the price of the energy which we generate and use. Hitherto this pollution has not been costed or priced into the energy we use. By factoring the cost of this pollution into the energy we use, we will be motivated to both constrain our use of energy and produce that energy from less polluting sources. This pollution will be priced by way of charging for every tonne of CO2 that is emitted to the environment. Every tonne of CO2 emitted to the environment will require the purchase of a permit from the Government.
In doing this - at least for the next decade until technology advances beyond where it is today - we will be making the energy we use more expensive. The greater the price we charge for permits, the more expensive that energy will be.
These costs will by definition be passed through to consumers. Business has no capacity to magically absorb unlimited cost increases due to emissions trading, any more than it does to absorb any other substantial cost increase. A high enough cost increase will wipe out profits, leaving a board with no alternative but to close the business. A smaller cost increase may still lower profits so far that the business activity has to shrink dramatically.
In a perfect world, if Australia were a closed economy and had no interaction with the rest of the world, emissions trading could theoretically, in the very short term at least, be a zero-sum game - provided that the Government were committed to returning to the community all of the revenue it generated from selling permits. The Government is indeed committed to returning all of the revenue it raises from selling permits; however, we do not live in a perfect world.
Emissions-intensive, trade-exposed (EITE) businesses
EITEs represent an important part of the Australian economy. Many of the goods we make and sell to the world "to earn our keep" are energy intensive, that is, they use a lot of energy. They are also globally traded goods whose price is set by the lowest-cost producers - wherever they may be.
This is true of both companies who export the goods they make in Australia and for companies who manufacture and sell locally but sell in competition with imported goods where the price is set by the cost of the import.
Broadly speaking, EITE industries account for 51 per cent of Australia's export earnings and employ up to 1 in 10 or around 924,000 Australians. They are a very important part of our economy. Generally speaking they are in sectors where Australia has a competitive advantage.
Most of these companies are price takers and do not have the ability to pass a carbon cost onto their customers. This means that they will directly bear the increased costs arising from the CPRS.
Our research shows that at carbon price of $20 per tonne without any compensation, these companies will be severely impacted with a median 27 per cent reduction in EBIT. Additionally, the cash flow impact on almost a quarter of the 14 would be so severe that they would have no choice but to close.
The Government recognises that some compensation must be given. However, even with the compensation proposed in the Green Paper, where around 20 per cent of permits are provided free to this sector, the impact is still so severe that:
- Three of the companies would have to shut.
- Four will fundamentally review their operations to remain viable after losing between 32 per cent and 63 per cent of their pre-tax earnings.
- The rest will take immediate action to reduce their costs.
- Many potential investments will not take place.
This impact is exacerbated by some aspects of the design of the Government's proposed compensation mechanism which is based on tonnes of CO2 per million dollars of revenue. This mechanism exposes companies to the full price risk and greatly increases the impact on their profitability as the carbon price rises. For example if a company is required to buy 50,000 permits, the cost of those permits doubles if the price of carbon is set at $40 rather than $20 per tonne with no change in its revenue.
However, even if these distortions are removed and assistance were to be provided on the basis of some measure linked to profitability, such as value add as the BCA has suggested, as research still shows that at carbon prices above $20 per tonne, the level of assistance required to assist EITEs becomes sufficiently large so as to leave the balance available to compensate consumers outside of the Government's comfort level.
So why not just constrain the assistance offered to them? Why should we care if EITEs fail? As some have pointed out, they are after all heavy polluters and would the world not be better off without them? We should care for a number of reasons.
Australia would lose valuable export earners. EITEs account for 51 per cent of Australia's exports. Jobs and investment will be lost. I might also add that a number of these industries are located in regional centres where the opportunities for alternative employment will be limited and the effect on working families could be devastating.
We would also be destroying many industries which we have a natural competitive advantage. Any expert in international trade will tell you that it isn't easy creating export industries in which you enjoy a natural advantage. With a common price for carbon and level global playing field these industries Australia would continue to have a competitive advantage in many of these businesses. Their competitive disadvantage is therefore most likely to be only temporary.
These industries produce important economic inputs like steel, aluminium and petrol. Our economy is unlikely to prosper without these goods. Without local production we will be forced to import unless the Government moves to restrict imports which I believe would be highly unlikely. Increased import demand will likely lead to increased production offshore. Given the region of the world in which we live, imports are likely to come from less developed countries with considerably less rigorous environmental standards that do not yet price carbon. Similarly the good Australian EITEs export are likely to be replaced by expanded production in these same countries.
Since the goods concerned will still be manufactured, this will not reduce global emissions. On the contrary there is a reasonable argument that it will increase them. Under these circumstances, Australia would achieve its emissions reductions by simply exporting them offshore.
Bipartisanship
The introduction of the CPRS was the single most important decision that the Rudd government would make in its first term. It is probably the most significant economic decision any government will have made since the introduction of the GST.
As such the BCA believes that it must be a bipartisan decision. Uncertainty is the great enemy of investment. Business needs certainty, particularly with regard to such major issues as the CPRS. If investors judge that the CPRS is going to be materially altered if and when government changes hands, they will likely defer or abandon their investment plans.
The BCA implores the Government and the Opposition to work together constructively on the design and implementation of the CPRS. The impact of the CPRS is just too great for us to be at the mercy of party politics. We ask both parties to forswear opposition for opposition's sake.
This may seem a big ask. But it is precisely what has happened for a number of years in Australia with respect to monetary policy. Both major parties have effectively agreed to create a climate of predictability with respect to prices and interest rates. The pay-off from monetary bipartisanship has been lower inflation for all Australians over the past 15 years. The pay-off from emissions policy bipartisanship will be a stronger Australian economy.
Greig Gailey is the president of the Business Council of Australia. This is an edited extract of a speech he will make to the Sydney Institute tonight.
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Comments (101)
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Wake up Australia:
27 Aug 2008 3:45:58pm
We need to get over our collective inferiority complex and simply accept that we are a piddling midget country with a population of only 21m people - a totally insignificant 0.3% of the worlds population.
Anyone who thinks that we can influence the likes of China, India, America, Indonesia etc to join us in an Emission Trading Scam suicide pact is an idiot.....or Kevin Rudd (same thing).
Oh and of course the AGW/CC theory is a total fraud.Agree (0) Alert moderator
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John Michaels:
27 Aug 2008 6:00:42pm
Or we could at least try to do something for ourselves and think that every little bit might help. Go outside and plant a few trees along the road so it can create a canopy to cover the black bitumen, then go out the back and dig up the lawn and plant a vegetable garden and put some fruit trees in so you don't have to buy oranges from the middle of nowhere that have been trucked from one depot to another depot to another depot before being sold 3 weeks later at coles or woolworths/safeway.
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BJ:
27 Aug 2008 10:27:55pm
Nothing but feel-good clap trap.
Why must we as a society insist upon taking a downbeat approach to our own lifestyles.
The economic advance should be celebrated, not mourned. It's remarkable, nothing to be ashamed of.Agree (0) Alert moderator
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Sam Guest:
28 Aug 2008 8:34:36am
Efficiency be damned, lets overconsume like fat pigs at a trough! Your cavalier attitude towards our wasteful behaviour is indicative of the kind of deliberate apathy of some who think by wallowing in their own consumerist debauchery that that is enough to justify it. Point is, either way, we can be a world leader in renwables and export it, and will add a new industry to the economy. Noone expects to transition overnight but because fossil fuels are ultimately limited why not start now?
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chalkie:
28 Aug 2008 9:46:28am
"It is accepted that Australia alone cannot solve the problem of global climate change. We account for just 1.6 per cent of global carbon emissions. What we can do, however, is take a position which will influence the global debate."
So the best we can do is make a feel good sentiment.
Remember every 1% decline in Australia's CO2 production delays overall global GROWTH in CO2 emmissions by about 2.5 DAYS. We really are insignificant and should be trying to get to the life boats rather than impotently shouting at the bridge to get Captain China to miss the iceberg.Agree (0) Alert moderator
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Damir Ibrisimovic:
28 Aug 2008 8:09:37am
Agree John,
Deniers of global warming are changing their tactics. It is now: We cant do it.
But, we can. And we can without hurting our exports or imports. All depends on how we set it up. And the proposed carbon trading scheme does offer deniers excuses.
A pollution tax would deny excuses to deniers. It can be made simple and easy to implement. Carbon dioxide emissions can be easily estimated per tonne, cubic metre or litre of fuel used in Australia. With this each coal or gas powered plant or petrol station will be able to calculate pollution tax. This will create a drive towards better efficiency, and ultimately, towards pollution free energy sources.
About half of pollution credits should go to afforestation activities. One quarter should be given to public transport wherever possible. The rest should go to vital industries to ease the pains of transition.
If there is no international consensus, the implementation of pollution tax could put Australia at disadvantage. However, we can tax imported products from countries that do not have similar measures. We can also credit our exports to those countries and the disadvantage will be minimised. This may mean renegotiating some treaties, but it can be done.
The pollution tax could be initially set to zero, but with annual increases depending on where we want to be in twenty years. This will give a certainty and time to businesses and individuals to adjust.
Simple and can be done.
Kind regards,Agree (0) Alert moderator
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Jim:
28 Aug 2008 8:33:27am
The people who are in denial are the people who think they can reverse global warming. Climate is a complex system and complex systems don't work like that. You can't stop an avalanche by finding the pebble that started it and putting it back on the top of the mountain.
Reduce carbon emissions by all means, but don't tie it to a solution for global warming, or else we'll end up totally unprepared for it when it becomes a major problem. And don't destroy the economy to do it.
The only thing carbon trading will do is increase the cost of everything for consumers. If the consumers of a particular industry are in Australia then bad luck. If they aren't then those industries will have to leave Australia to remain competitive. So the consumer, not the industry, will pay more, carbon emissions won't change and industry with foreign clients will be looking for somewhere else to operate.
This is just a money grabbing scheme by the federal government, using global warming and the average voter's paranoia as a prop.Agree (0) Alert moderator
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Damir Ibrisimovic:
28 Aug 2008 9:55:39am
Losers will always say it cannot be done. Winners will always say it can be done.
Losers mentality cannot help us. We have to change our mindset and say it can and will be done. And pollution tax is just a first step. We can and will reverse the trend, since we must. We can transform our continent. I offered one option here:
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2008/07/01/2290426.htm
It will be difficult, but it can be done.
Kind regards,Agree (0) Alert moderator
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John O:
28 Aug 2008 10:20:04am
Global warming has been discredited hence the new environmentalists catchcry "climate change".
Agree (0) Alert moderator
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Joe:
27 Aug 2008 6:23:22pm
Or you could say that China, India, US etc are also looking for solutions to continue economic growth whilst lowering emissions - we could be creating intellectual property worth billions.
Australia is an innovative country. The future is not going to be in emissions intensive trade exposed industries forever. It will be less painful to act now, to lead and create new opporunities. That is how a small country like ours can build on the resources booms that built us and create a sustainable future. And certainly, one resource we have in plenty, that won't be affected by climate change, is the sun.
In two decades we will be running electrified mines off solar energy cheaper that the rest of the world under a global trading scheme and wondering what all the fuss was about.Agree (0) Alert moderator
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Trust_me_Im_a_rat:
28 Aug 2008 6:53:24am
I have a deep suspicion that what the business council really wants is more compensation. As other posters here have stated the report uses worst case scenarios and loaded statistics. Some business activities will prosper and others will falter. The whole idea is to restructure ore energy supplies, but it appears that the business council wants to be part of the problem when it really should be part of the solution.
Trust me Im a ratAgree (0) Alert moderator
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TRADING TAX FOR JOBS:
28 Aug 2008 9:22:32am
STOP emmission trading is not trading emmissions its TAX TAX TAX on the producers the use of energy taxed all over again ramping inflation and unemployment sending industry to offshore mass polluters... who have not enough trees.. but we have tooooooooooo many trees... 200 billion acres of vegetation ...
WHY IS THE BUSINESS COUNCIL ANTI BUSINESS ?
WHY DOES IT IGNORE WE ARE CO2 CONSUMERS..?
WE DO NOT USE 1.5% OF THE WORLDS EMMISSIONS WE ACTUALLY TAKE UP MORE THAN 5% OF THE WORLDS CO2 ANNUALLY IN OUR VEGETATION ANS SOIL
IF AUSTRALIA GOT PAID FOR ITS TREES THEN WE COULD WORK LESS AND BE COMPENSATED BY THE POLLUTERS OF THIS WORLD
NAH DO IT THE OTHER WAY PENALISE THE GOOD GUYS AND REWARD THE BADDIES ...Agree (0) Alert moderator
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Fratelli:
28 Aug 2008 10:00:22am
I dont suppose you took into account our coal/oil/gas exports into your 1.5% figure did you?
The point is that action has to start somewhere. The Europeans and others have been doing it for years. Why not us? When they started out, everyone would have been saying the same thing - "why bother? you're not going to get the world on board". But they are, slowly. The next to come on will be the US after their next election, and then China and India.
It all has to start somewhere, and we will all have to join eventually.Agree (0) Alert moderator
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Barry:
28 Aug 2008 10:07:43am
Agreed and a very strange argument this all is. No one honestly believes that making energy prohibitively expensive is in Australia's best interest yet that is the purpose of every carbon constraint scheme, including an ETS.
The alleged purpose of government is to work for the benefit of its masters, the citizens who elect it. I don't remember anything about them being required to lower everyone's standard of living.
If global warming is a genuine threat (and at this stage it exists at threatening levels only under extreme scenarios in the virtual worlds of less-than-perfect models) then the path to protection lies in wealth generation since wealth is required to maintain the infrastructure and services under adverse conditions. Increasing poverty is not protective and yet that is the inevitable result of energy rationing through prohibitive pricing (ETS).
Regardless of whether catastrophic global warming is true or false energy rationing will not help people and so is a stupid response. Moreover, the people crying greatest catastrophe also declare warming inevitable due to current atmospheric carbon dioxide levels and so the only rational response is defence, which means maximising wealth generation and infrastructure development.
Under no circumstance is it appropriate for government to assault the economy via the energy supply since it is either an alarmist non-response to an imaginary problem or the worst possible response to an inevitable problem. Whatever the answer to the question of catastrophic global warming an ETS is always the wrong response.Agree (0) Alert moderator
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Joe:
27 Aug 2008 3:50:00pm
Apart from the fact that the BCA report has been harshly and widely critised by anyone who has actually subjected it to analysis - i.e. not the mainstream media who have lapped it up - this is a can't do piece.
We need a can do attitude from industry. Yes, it will be more expensive to produce vast amounts of innefficient pollution in Australia. That is the whole point. The auctioning of permits ensures that the most efficient industries - the ones that can afford them because their profit per tonnes of CO2 is higher - prosper and the most polluting have to find new ways or scale back. That is the whole point of the ETS - to reduce Australias emissions.
On the first point, to quote Crickey.com's Canberra Correspondant Bernard Keane "I called the Port Jackson Partners report on which the BCAs submissions is based "junk economics". A closer look suggests this understates things. The report is bullshi-t of the highest order, a composite of worst-case scenarios carefully presented to create the impression of corporate slaughter if the model outlined in the Governments Green Paper -- a model which is already absurdly pro-industry proceeds."
Not a great report to base our response to climate change on! I'd go back to the independent model presented by Garnaut.Agree (0) Alert moderator
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BJ:
27 Aug 2008 10:29:49pm
I would support the Garnaut approach, but for him dismissing anyone with a contrary view as a "denier" in the pejorative sense. Very mature, not.
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James Mason:
27 Aug 2008 3:50:02pm
Well-argued case for moving forward in a smart way, rather than going off, half-cocked. Well done, Mr. Gailey and the BCA! Now, how clever is our Federal government?
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John Michaels:
27 Aug 2008 6:05:23pm
You know a long time ago before the world was wired and everybody owned a car to get around in Australia had communities. These days people are too scared to look over the fence in case they get stabbed in the eye. If we all wait for Government or the BCA to do anything we will be worm food before we know it. We need to try to reinvigorate the community spirit and work together to shield ourselves and our personal areas from as much damage as possible. Plant trees, create solar panel farms, create wind farms, and reintroduce community gardens so that we, as a community and as a people, can insulate ourselves from the worst of what may or may not come.
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Billy Bob Hall:
27 Aug 2008 8:49:09pm
Dear John, where is the "worst of what may come" going to come from ? And more importantly what exactly is the "worst of what may come". If you can tell me this, then the next simple "add ion" to to actually prove it. Scientifically or course.
Please prove to me that climate change is anthropogenic. - Please !Agree (0) Alert moderator
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Anton:
28 Aug 2008 12:14:46am
Create ....... solar panel farms.
Create ....... wind farms.Agree (0) Alert moderator
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Jim:
28 Aug 2008 8:42:09am
The government won't do this because:
They'd lose tax from the coal mining industry;
They'd lose tax from the coal transport industry;
They'd lose tax from the power generation industry;
They'd lose tax from the waste disposal industry;
They'd lose the money they're going to make from the carbon credit scam;
And they'll lose the tax from the "Clean Coal" burying-the-stuff-in-big-holes-industry.
If we go with solar power it'll be so cheap the government will lose a fortune. But perhaps you think that the government has your best interests at heart?
If you want to do solar power do it yourself. It's the only way it will happen. I reckon you could generate almost all your own power needs from the sunlight that falls on your property. How about communities getting together an building their own solar power stations? It can be done, it is being done with a wind farm I believe, it just won't be done by the government until they are forced into it by the action of the public.Agree (0) Alert moderator
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anthony:
27 Aug 2008 3:52:34pm
perhaps if the report financed by the BCA didn't contain loaded assumptions designed to cook the results, people would have reacted more positively - just a guess
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Brad Arnold:
27 Aug 2008 4:00:49pm
I know this will be a lot to swallow, but there is a cheap and simple way to immediately lower the Earth's surface temperature: just add a little sun dimming aerosol to the upper atmosphere. That will buy us time to make the transition to a much lower carbon footprint. By the way, CO2 can be turned into fuel biologically. This is called "4th generation fuel production," and could make compressed CO2 an asset, rather than the liability now.
"I know of no realistic person who thinks carbon dioxide emissions are going to do anything but grow. Most European countries are not meeting their emissions goals, and of the ones that have, it's because their economies are collapsing. In the United States, this notion that we're going to reduce our emissions by 80 percent is pure fantasy." --Pete Geddes, Foundation for Research on Economics and the Environment, 2 April 2008Agree (0) Alert moderator
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Big Bad Bob:
27 Aug 2008 9:22:54pm
If the earth's temp is increasing the data is not showing it. The hottest day (on record) was back in the 1930's, not more recently as we have been falsely led to believe. And if it is rising, where is it taking place? At the thermometer perched above hot asphalt in a city in Houston, or a poorly sited instrument next to an airconditioner in New York?
Satellite data sets which measure the temp in the troposphere show no warming at all, and this is one of the most accurate of all methods for detecting change.Agree (0) Alert moderator
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BJ:
27 Aug 2008 10:34:43pm
Then if the world freezes up, we know we were wrong all along.
The simple fact with so-called climate change has its genesis in man's yearning to control the weather. Failing actually controlling the weather, we've done the next best thing; convince ourselves that we control the weather when in reality we do not.
It's like those forecasting tools for predicting rain days months ahead - what a load of twaddle. We can't get the forecast right two days later.Agree (0) Alert moderator
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Michael:
28 Aug 2008 6:37:55am
Today I sat down to lunch with my thirty something coworkers and made a joke about how none of their children would know Santa Claus. When they asked me what I meant I told them about recent predictions that there might be no polar ice by 2014, hence no place for Santa to live. This would be the first time this has happened in 60 million years. Out of 10 people at the table only one knew of this research (and he believed it). To put this in perspective I should say that I was having lunch in the sun in the South of France (where I'm currently working) with a cohort that all have PhDs in Biological Sciences (mostly developmental biology). In addition to two Aussies (myself included) there were English, Irish, French, Argentinian, Italian, Lebanese, German and Portugese at the table. The English and Irish though a bit more sun back home might not be such a bad thing. The German told me that one reason solar pannels are so popular in his country is because people are getting ready for when they will be more useful than they are now with the current cloud cover (does this fit uncomfortably well with sterotypical german planning or is it just me?). Regardless of the detail, suffice it to be said that 8/10 highly educated people in europe dont think climate change is a concern (n=10). If we head toward Pete Geddes world with no Artic ice in 2014 there is going to be lots more discussion about how to cool the planet using the scary method Brad Arnold has described here (and others have described elsewhere). Ironically/unfortunately this might be incompatable with using/developing solar while we "buy time to make the transition". On the other hand if the sceptics at the table (in support of some of the bloggers here) are right and it is all just a natural cycle then we will be able to breath a collective sigh of relief in 2014 when polar ice is back to "normal". Where did I put my crystal ball???
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ravensclaw:
27 Aug 2008 4:01:58pm
I am of the view that a carbon taxation scheme will be harmful to the economy by the way of lost investment and jobs.
A better way is an incentive scheme i.e. financially encourage business to improve their carbon track record. This can occur with grants to research and development or refits to more carbon neutral technology.
We did something similar to this in the 80's with microeconomic reforms. Why can't we do the same again but for the benefit to the environment.
This way we can protect jobs and investment and improve the environment (not just from CO2 emmissions).
It truly is a shame the direction Rudd is taking us, catastrophic climate change or not. There are simply better ways to improve our environment. Ideology and reactionary decision making seems to be the bottleneck and problem.
CheersAgree (0) Alert moderator
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Joe:
27 Aug 2008 6:09:43pm
Tried incentives - that was the Howard agenda for the last decade on this issue. Failed miserably as our emissions continue to accelerate upwards. Business doesn't care enough to act quickly, we need a price on carbon. The ETS is the best solution.
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Billy Bob Hall:
27 Aug 2008 8:52:39pm
We already have a price on carbon. You can consult the Financial Review if you like. The price of coal per tonne is well known, and in fact actually increasing steadily in price because of increasing demand, and despite how "toxic" it is perceived to be in the general community.
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ravensclaw:
28 Aug 2008 6:58:05am
Joe
Hardly! But most importantly when Howard did it worked. Also emmissions fell per capita under Howard. You are making many faulty assumptions Joe!
People took up the lightbulbs. People changed to gas for their car, geothermal got off the ground etc.
What I am talking about is an Australian wide cultural change that is incentive based like Button's MicroEconomic Reforms.
Button's reforms worked without resistance. Existing subsidies that improve our environmental track record work without resistance so why not?????
If you introduce a whip brandishing scheme like this carbon tax system businesses (especially those struggling) will close. Investment and jobs will be lost. To suggest otherwise is deceitful. To suggest this carbon tax won't have a significant and long term negative impact on our economy is also deceitful.
Factories upgrade their assembly lines on the average every 20 years. It is not feasible to upgrade after 5 or 10 years as the cost is huge. But when a factory does upgrade it would be good for a research and development scheme and incentive scheme to be in place for a more carbon friendly refurbishment when it is required.
We don't need a price on carbon and an ETS is not a "best" solution. The above demostrates the facts of that.
Rudd's "solution" is a poor one and based on alarmism rather than science. Science says we will get a 1 degree F - 1 degree C temp increase with a doubling of CO2. This is not a catastrophic increase like the false prophets Gore, Garrett, Brown and Flannery propose.
Climate models are not science. Alarmism is not science. The Hockey Stick was wrong and is now fraudulently used. The Iris Hypothesis now proves that Radiative Forcing now works in reverse in the tropics to what the alarmists believe. Even the politically corrupt IPCC says they are only 90% sure that man made CO2 emissions will raise temperatures.
CheersAgree (0) Alert moderator
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Homer:
27 Aug 2008 4:09:56pm
This is all very well if it were a perfect world. Unfortunately it is not.
CPRS is a rediculous scheme that can never work to reduce carbon. It will only reduce our economy. Full stop end of story.
For example:
My business takes products, recycles them and produces marginally lower emmission products than are currently being imported in our particular line. We have approached the govt for carbon credit offsets because we provide both recycling, negative import and efficiency gaining products. The reply from one state govt:
Quote:
While the savings and reductions in greenhouse gases produced compared to new**** are appreciated, this would not directly lead to the creation of carbon credits...The scheme will apply to make energy more expensive to reflect the greenhouse gas emissions in production however it will not be possible to create carbon credits through the use of less energy intensive production processes.
In other words tax everyone until they are no longer around.
The problem is, all of my (and most of Australias) competitors are from overseas imports.
So they are not taxing the big bad poluter. Just the local business using power for lighting and tooling to make products for Australians.
Get real!!!!Agree (0) Alert moderator
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Brad:
27 Aug 2008 4:32:23pm
The BCA's claim is a complete furphy. It is just scare tactics to try to get out of taking its share of the responsibility for tackling climate change. If any Australian company has to shut rather than reduce emissions, it's the company's own fault for doing nothing since the need to reduce emissions was first identified in the 1980s. International
France contributes only 1.7% of the world's emissions, but has a policy of reducing its greenhouse gas emissions by 75% by 2050. France already produces 77% of its power from nuclear so the cuts have to come from other sectors.
The UK contributes only 2% of the world's emissions. By 2006 the UK had reduced its greenhouse gas emissions to 16% below 1990 levels (the Kyoto target was 12.5% by 2012) without hurting its economy. The UK has now legislated to reduce emissions by a further 26-32% by 2020 and 60% by 2050. The Climate Change Bill makes these targets legally binding.Agree (0) Alert moderator
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BJ:
27 Aug 2008 10:37:24pm
I'm just waiting for one of the pro-climate change proletariat to tell us how the climate "tipping point" is just 10 years away.
Wasn't the tipping point ten years away 15 years ago ? Won't it be 10 years away 20, 30 or 40 years from now ?Agree (0) Alert moderator
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Lindsay Cooper:
27 Aug 2008 4:40:27pm
This discussion is going to go on for a long time and be used as an excuse to ignore the more pressing problems of society such as education failures, gambling and alcohol related problems together with water supply etc. etc. etc.
One of the easiest ways to reduces emissions would be to do away with engines over two litres capacity in normal every day motor vehicles and maybe at the same time reducing the weight of these vehicles to somewhere near to one ton instead of closer to two ton as they are now. Just imagine the saving in fuel and emissions this would cause.
Of cause this is too simple and logical for our current politicians to even think about without having the standard system of ongoing committees to look into the possibilities over the life of our present parliment and then decide that findings don't fit into the new crop of politians agenda so will neeed some more committees etc. etc.
[I am sure you get the gist of what I am trying say.]Agree (0) Alert moderator
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James:
27 Aug 2008 4:42:37pm
What are we trying to do?
Protect our massive profits, our inefficient businesses and our a****s while the public picks up the tab for our pollution.
These people put shareholders and executive bonuses before the planet and the people, every time.
They have known for decades that emissions trading was on its way and should have planned accordingly. This is blatant fear-mongering by industries that aren't going anywhere because their raw product is right here.
Business will always - always - bleat about the costs it will incur because of regulation. So much for innovation.
If the BCA is allowed to influence our ETS and demand special protections and free permits, then as Garnaut has pointed out, we might as well not do it and have a tax instead. It has to be done well and along the lines set out in the Garnaut review to avoid the well-known pitfalls of caving into business lobby groups which was amply demonstrated when Europe introduced it's scheme.Agree (0) Alert moderator
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Homer:
27 Aug 2008 6:42:05pm
James,the businesses you talk about aren't innefficient. That's the problem. They have just been labelled that in the last year or two because they use electricity nothing else - just like you do.
Using electricity was and has never been a measure of efficiency or environmental responsibility until right now.
Not only that, this scheme does nothing to identify or reward environmental efficiency. In fact if you read my comment above, they wrote to me and effectively explained it has nothing to do with rewarding anyone for anything. They expect to reduce carbon emmissions by closing businesses that aren't profitable enough to pay for the new electricity tax.
So if I invent a car with zero ozone depleting potential - say it runs 0.5 litres to 100km's and uses carbon as fuel and produces water, they will tax me exactly the same ammount as my competitor - say Ford for example to build it - because I will use electricity.
Look at the legislation - what I have written here is 100% accurate as I have written letters from the state govt telling me this.Agree (0) Alert moderator
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twobob:
27 Aug 2008 4:48:18pm
Simple solution here, dont implement carbon trading.
Instead implement a carbon tax as fossil fuels are extracted from the earth. And tax all goods entering our country so as to impose a cost equivalent to the cost imposed by Australian companies. Use this to offset the price that we sell our export goods for so that there is no net increase or decrease caused by the price of fossil fuel.
Something must be done.
On one hand we may have economic hardship, a few lost jobs, but on the other hand we may have a few new type jobs, maybe we loose some industries to developing countries.
Conversely we risk sentencing our childrens future to a life with catastrophic and runaway climate change.
So when I balance this in my mind the risk of sentencing my children, at the chance of losing a few jobs does not seem like to big a price to pay. I have been unemployed before and its not the end of the world. Climate change however well might be the end of humanity.
Given the differing consequences and the weight of what climate change could do, a truly balanced approach (where the severity of the consequences are weighted according to there seriousness) would be do everything possible, immediately to address the climate change threat and worry about economic effects later.Agree (0) Alert moderator
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Patrick Darley-Jones:
27 Aug 2008 4:49:59pm
Some of what Greg Gailey says is very true and some bits are sheer bull.
I run a small manufacturing business and am also a member of the Climate Change Coalition as I am a very concerned about the future of our planet. I'm between the proverbial rock and the hard place in more than one way - we as a company are conscious of minimising our carbon footprint and we are the mercy of cheap imports from China. We struggle daily.
I cannot in conscience ignore the issue of climate change and if I have to make changes, and struggle more, then I'm prepared to do this for the future of my grandchildren and their children. We cannot leave a legacy of disaster by filling our pockets today. Better one million jobs gone today than ten million gone tomorrow, the BCA has a wider responsibiliy than just it's membership. We must reduce our Carbon footprint AND we must take all possible action to get other countries to do the same.
Yes indeed Australia only contributes a small amount of greenhouse gases to the world volume being produced - be aware every one of you who import from China that that country is now the world's largest producer of greenhouse gasses, even to the severe detriment of it's own population . The problem for Australia is fundamental, we're not playing on a level playing field, the other major players look after themselves - America is protectionist, the EC is protectionist and China is one of the most protectionist there is - but we have naive grasping politicians who seem to live in their dream world of having everything politically correct (PC). To have a fair and equitable system then the only way to tax Carbon at source - simple you pay a tax as soon as you mine it, as soon as you pump it, as soon as you ship it, and most importantly, as soon as it lands on our shores. (As with Europe we should also be considering a transport tax to account for the pollution created in bringing imported goods to our shores. Then we have an equitable system.
But, we don't have politicians here who have either the guts of the foresight. In the mean time the world will be passing us by.
Patrick Darley-JonesAgree (0) Alert moderator
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whitelephant:
27 Aug 2008 4:52:31pm
Many positives in this piece. But. .....Business has no capacity to magically absorb any other substantial cost increase....
B...shite and misleading! Business always, always, always wants to pass cost increases on to the public whilst at the same time maintaining the exorbitant salaries of CEO's and the returns to investors unless enormous public pressure is exerted to stop them. The recent interest rate issue with the banks is a case in point. Let these people realise that they too have to take significant cuts to help solve the climate change problem.
The is nothing written in stone to say that a business has to survive if it can't cut it in this new world -so if it can't-bad luck!-let the community support the workers displaced until they can be re-absorbed into new alternative energy industries and let the CEO's jump out of the windows of their office blocks. And what is to be lost if a business does shrink dramatically? Part of the problem is the constant growth at all costs philosophy. The world can no longer support the philosophy of greed!-get used to it.Agree (0) Alert moderator
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ravensclaw:
28 Aug 2008 7:04:47am
whitelephant
It is my experience that greedy people are usually poor and stay poor. Greedy people are identified quickly and not trusted by the community at large. The same could be said with envy and why socialists are not trusted by the community at large.
Greedy <> Financial Success.
Whether a business is privately owned or a government run enterprise if costs are not passed to the consumer then that puts the business at risk.
CheersAgree (0) Alert moderator
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David:
27 Aug 2008 4:53:07pm
Mr Gailey has missed the point completely, or is deliberately making the same kind of plea for a special deal as the car manufacturers who want to stick their hands in my pocket.
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Billy Bob Hall:
27 Aug 2008 8:45:52pm
It's not a matter of making a deal. The argument is that there doesn't have to be a deal at all !
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Cynet:
27 Aug 2008 5:03:29pm
BCA is correct about being unqualified about the science of carbon pollution but subjectively pursues influence over government who are advised by carbon pollution scientists.
BCA says Australia must take part in addressing carbon pollution, not carbon polluting Australians.
The management of carbon pollution on the Australian continent whilst exploiting the resources is perhaps the easiest challenge of any country in the world, given our population density and technological capacity to balance emissions with sequestration. Does BCA really think that this will impress the rest of the world?
We account for just 1.6% of emissions. Well, the population that represents the pollution is minute at approximately 0.3% making carbon polluting Australians the worst on the planet.
we will be making the energy we use more expensive in context to having to wait for technology to be developed. I think the message is clear that polluting should occur even if the cash value is high. So therefore, the pollution is not really being considered by the BCA. Consumers will be able to cope with the costs as long as they are as rich as business, or do they expect government to hand them the revenue from selling pollution permits. Either way, the sincerity of not polluting is still missing. The government will likely spend that money on growing trees and in the context of funding science and technological advances presumably award sound-minded projects with public money and development for society.
EITE businesses are important to Australia because they are very profitable and they exploit, transform and sell natural resources to us. They are also some of the most aware businesses, knowing they would have pollution to answer for then and now.
These businesses will have to absorb the cost and if they cant sell they will have to contract in size, find other pollution ethical markets or hope the lack of supply will drive up costs.
The government proposed compensation mechanism to EITE provides a stimulus to prevent pollution based on revenue which is nothing for the BCA to complain about when the pollution is required to be limited as advised by the science. In fact, the BCA can feel fortunate that under the proposal, pollution has been linked to a dollar value! Business simply has to not only start listening but act quick smart about climate changing carbon pollution.
Its a big ask to government to give any credit to the apathetic opposition on carbon management.Agree (0) Alert moderator
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Anton:
27 Aug 2008 6:31:45pm
How I detest the per capita argument.
China has a population of 1.3 Billion, 60 times that of Australia's population of 22 Million.
They produce 3600TWH of power, only 12 times what we produce here in Australia, at 280TWH.
65% of Australia's power goes to industry and commerce. while in China, it is close to 90%.
In China, less than one family in six has access to any electricity at all, let alone constant and reliable electricity.
China is bringing on line one huge coal fired power plant every seven to ten days, just to feed their advance into the twentieth century, let alone the twenty first. Are we to deny those Chinese access to electricity.
That is why using the per capita argument is spurious, and designed to pursue an altogether separate agenda.
The situation in India is even worse than that of China with their population of 1.2 Billion.
We take for granted something they don't have at all. That's why even if we lead the way, they will not follow. Anything we do here will be negated by China and India, and what we spend hundreds of billions of dollars to do in the lead up to 2020 will be cancelled out every 18 days in just those two Countries alone, not out of malice to destroy the environment, but out of desperation to bring their vast populace out of the most horrendous poverty that we have no idea of here in Australia.
Please do not use this per capita head emission furphy.Agree (0) Alert moderator
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BJ:
27 Aug 2008 10:43:17pm
Anton
I can only agree. Your piece here is the most considered yet.
With those two countries commencing their industrial revolutions, there is no doubt that the quality of life being afforded the average Chinese and Indian in the heavy manufacturing cities (while looking rather smoggy and appalling to us) is much better and accelerating that beyond their previous generation could ever contemplate.
Especially in rural China and India, there are the vast majority of people of those nations and those that still lead an agrarian and subsistence life. Improvement in their economic lot still has yet to come.Agree (0) Alert moderator
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Cynet:
28 Aug 2008 10:17:28am
The per capita arguement is another indicative statistic about the capacity of business in this nation to pollute compared to others. Thanks for explaining the proportion of pollution that is attributed to industry in isolation of the population. However, the pollution is still that, and infering an arguement to the contrary is meaningless when we all know the consumers of industrial products are polluting too. You can't lose sight of the issues here, which shall be iterated. It's all about the pollution!
Study a fire and you will understand that you can control it using a chimney. You can control the temperature, the duration of burning, the chemical properties of the fuel etc. Now imagine the analogy is extended to management of global carbon pollution. You need a cap like a chimney and you will lower the heat of the fire. The idea is that if emissions are lowered, the temperature of the earth will stabilise and the quality of the earths resources will favour life. Simple really!
If you can understand that, then I am sure a chinese or indian person can understand that too.Agree (0) Alert moderator
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John Michaels:
28 Aug 2008 3:59:37am
Umm Geosequestration is still an unproven technology unless you believe the animated corporate video made for Government by the coal industry at the expense of $150 Million AUD.
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Polony:
27 Aug 2008 5:23:35pm
"Our research shows that ... almost a quarter of the 14 would ... have ... to close.
Three of the companies would have to shut."
25% of 14 is 3.5. Are you extrapolating a proportion from a sample size of only 14 entities?
Although qualitative research is valid when treated as qualitative research, it would be rediculous extrapolating this proportion to the population.
If the sample of 14 is from a simple random sample, at a 95% level, a result of 3 out of 14 in the sample, indicates the true proportion in the population is anywhere between 8.4% and 50.8%.
If you have stratified the population of businesses before getting your sample of 14, you provide no indication that the proportions of the sample from each strata match the proportions of these strata in the population. Your lack of rigour in not detailing how the sample was arrived at indicates that your statistical analysis is possibly also too lazy to ensure that any strata proportions used match the population proportions.
Please either use statistics correctly or not at all. Otherwise, generalisations about your lack of intellectual rigour become reasonable.Agree (0) Alert moderator
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pete:
27 Aug 2008 7:00:37pm
furthermore the population size in this case is only 1000 companies! why select only 14 when your population size is still relatively small. i think we have a case of some very selective research. i would like to know the method they used for selecting the subjects used!
lets use a criticism often leveled at climate change scientists, that they only use the data they know will provide the result they want...
so in this case if the BCA could only find 14 companies (out of 1000) that they thought would provide the result they wanted yet only 3 of the companies yielded the result they wanted, so that is 3 out of 1000 companies will be forced to close due to an ETS, then i think they are definitely blowing a lot of hot air! lets hope those companies are coal coal coal ;-).
the creation of green industries will definitely fill the gap here, as proven by Spain, US and Germany
yes yes i know i have been very presumptuous and not overly rigorous in my approach here, but hey if the BCA can do it then why cant i?Agree (0) Alert moderator
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pete:
27 Aug 2008 5:27:54pm
what a load of rubbish. so those emission intensive industries that account for 51% of our export earnings, namely mining and gas companies will go broke. are these the sames ones that are currently benefiting from a massive rise in oil and gas prices, but not in their production costs and what about those poor iron ore mining companies, the ones that just benefited from a 60% rise in iron ore prices. come on mate they will not go broke, their profit margins may just decrease a little (a tiny little).
metals, oil and gas are finite resources and as such their price will always go up and companies that have made good exploration and business decisions will continue to profit. an ETS will just hold them a little more accountable and just maybe encourage them to diversify their powerbase to include more renewables. while Australia continues to provide a very stable environment for investment the companies will continue to come. they know an ETS is coming and it will be apart of Australia's economic future, this still makes for a stable environment to invest., they know the conditions
Coal companies (and oil companies), sorry guys, bad luck you will be obsolete very soon!Agree (0) Alert moderator
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Gerald:
27 Aug 2008 6:06:04pm
Coal is here to stay mate. It's cheap and its abundant and there's plenty of infrastructure. Dreams of running this vast continent on windmills and solar panels is unrealistic unless you want to talk NooKlear.
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Norm McMullen:
27 Aug 2008 8:37:49pm
Pete, the USA has completed a test on cars using hydrogen fuel cells. Driving them right across the US coast to coast! Up to people at this point to support this. When a majority of people buy these vehicles the petrol stations will be replaced hydrogen stations. Roll on - can't wait for it!
Up to man to understand what he stands to lose!Agree (0) Alert moderator
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James Mason:
28 Aug 2008 12:26:43am
Coal and oil companies obsolete very soon? Is that why the Chinese are trying so hard to buy them up around the world?
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R G Hay:
28 Aug 2008 9:59:19am
I don't think coal and oil producing companis are the ones that use lots of electricity, or emit lots of GHG's. The industries most at risk I would guess are aluminimum smelting, oil refining, some natural gas producers that have fields with a lot of CO2 in the gas, cement makers, and perhaps brickworks, and what we have left of a steel industry. Electric trains and streetlighting and traffic signals would also be fairly sensitive to electricity price rises, I'd think.
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Foster:
27 Aug 2008 5:41:53pm
Greig Gailey seems to be in the business of fear. Fear of business closures, fear of job losses, fear of businesses going of-shore, not investing...The list is without end.
I have been in business for nearly 30 years and like many others we survived downturns and recessions, competition and the GST.
Every business worth it's existence will learn to adapt to the new rules. I would suggest that just about every business has opportunities to reduce energy consumption without negatively affecting the bottom line. Indeed I expect that many businesse will increase investment, rid themselves of out of date technology ( read polluters) and in the end will be better of and more profitable. Australia will be a better place.Agree (0) Alert moderator
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PB:
27 Aug 2008 5:53:00pm
These industries have had their heads buried in the sand for years and have been making huge profits for their own benefit with little or no investment in sustainable renewable energy sources and to compensate them at the cost of the rest of consumers and industries with more vision and greater responsibilty is grossly inequitable.
It is also totally false to claim that "Most of these companies are price takers and do not have the ability to pass a carbon cost onto their customers." The recent uplift in steel costs to the Chinese is ample proof of that.
Most of the figures claimed in the report are unsubstantiated by independent evidence and are based on the scenario that these industries do nothing to cut their emissions in which case they deserve to go out of business.
The fundamental premise of the BCA report is to gain greater financial compensation for these industries by promoting the worst case scenario and it should therefore be treated with extreme caution.Agree (0) Alert moderator
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concerned:
27 Aug 2008 5:55:23pm
I think the Government has got it right with their planned emissions trading scheme (ETS). We should reduce our carbon footprint and an ETS provides the fairest way of spreading the cost amongst the Australian population. An ETS also provides the fairest way of making carbon-free energy sources (geothermal, solar, wind, wave, nuclear) economically viable. Coal provides the cheapest source of energy - that's why we have been using it to supply all our energy to date, and why the use of other forms of energy implies an additional cost. The Business Council of Australia needs to be part of the solution rather than part of the problem - they need to share the cost, just as we all need to share the cost.
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Doh:
27 Aug 2008 8:19:12pm
Just to put a bit of perspective on the government's plan, here are three fairly simple questions
1. What sort of reduction in petrol use is required or targeted?
2. What increase in petrol price would happen with a $40 per ton carbon tax?
3. What would be the likely reduction in petrol use with the increased petrol price?
The answers to these questions will give a reasonable estimate of the impact of the carbon trading scheme.
If anybody would like to put forward other quantitative questions about how effective this scheme will be then the debate will improve immeasurably. Let's get to the nitty gritty.Agree (0) Alert moderator
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bullfrog:
28 Aug 2008 8:40:20am
On rough calculations, $47 a tonne (Europes current price) translates as 10.5c per liter on your petrol (which hurts, but in the context of what's happened over the last few years is not huge).
And as to what effect that'll have - you raise the price, people will focus on the necessary travel first, and holiday at home. It may get to the point where mass transport options become viable again (such as trains, buses etc). Don't know, not my field.Agree (0) Alert moderator
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Doh:
28 Aug 2008 9:08:29am
Ok. Such an increase at a guess will result in perhaps a 2% drop in emissions judging by the reaction to the recent price increases.
Can anybody else see why this scheme is not going to achieve the level of change its advocates say we need?
Carbon trading is the truly stupid idea of our time. I suggest that the next plan is formed by a group which excludes economists.Agree (0) Alert moderator
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Bullfrog:
27 Aug 2008 6:00:17pm
Maybe we should go for a carbon (CO2) consumption tax, versus an emission tax.
Thus the ultimate end benefactor of the CO2 being emitted (be it Joe Bloggs citizen, or a company) pays for the CO2 signature of the product. And that won't matter where the product is being made either.
So if a company in China uses very dirty power / poor process / etc, its CO2 signature will be higher, and will cost more.
The driver to lower CO2 emissions will be to achieve a spot in the market.
And when we sell into other countries, our companies don't pay the carbon tax here (our companies aren't the consumer). Similar to GST (which stops at our border).
Where a country has a carbon trading / taxation system that is trying to import into Australia, an equivalency test could be made, which would be offset against the carbon consumption penalty (be it a tax, or a tradeable entity).Agree (0) Alert moderator
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Michael:
28 Aug 2008 5:30:38am
Great idea! I see a few advantages in such a scheme. 1. It maintains the incentive for industries that are currently energy intensive to look to lower carbon alternatives because their product will not be priced competitively. 2. It encourages people to source locally because it would surely require inclusion of carbon output in getting the item to the point of retail sale. 3. It does not discriminate against Australian industries that have to pay an emissions tax while allowing other countries to get away with pumping out as much CO2 as they like to produce a competing product that is imported. 4. Putting 1, 2 and 3 together it encourages overseas industries to clean up their act to be competitive in the Australian marketplace.
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GC:
27 Aug 2008 6:03:35pm
There are no jobs on a dead planet
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Mick G:
27 Aug 2008 6:07:39pm
Mark Twain said "A lie can run around the world six times while the truth is still trying to put on its pants" Anthropogenic climate change proves that! There is no scientific basis for it,only flawed computer modelling.The same modelling that has problems predicting weather more than a couple of days ahead.Now the politicians have joined in the media hysteria and we are all going to pay for it, especially the billions of people in the world who neither have electricity or drive a car. Please don't reply about there being scientific consensus about man made climate change. Consensus is a political term, it has no place in science.
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Big Bad Bob:
27 Aug 2008 9:08:22pm
Great quote there Mick. You are spot on.
Politicians make much of the "complete consensus of scientists" whilst ignoring the fact that such consensus is only amongst the 2500 members of IPCC, a majority of whom are bureaucrats not scientists, and they all start from the assumption that AGW is the cause. If you look at all the institutions which are towing the line, they are all reliant upon the IPCC findings. They are all drunk with the same intoxicating brew which is now incredibly lucrative and more importantly politically correct.
Far from being a majority, as the article reports, the IPCC is a minority compared with around 40,000 scientists unconnected with the IPCC who dispute the conclusions and data in its reports.
The major assumptions of the IPCC have clearly collapsed. Since 2000, global temperatures have declined while atmospheric CO2 levels have increased. No amount of pseudo-scientific bafflegab can adequately answer this glaring hole which is so big, you could drive a B-double through it sideways.Agree (0)
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